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FeederOfRavens, a 'kenning' for a warrior, a combination of Pugilist style WaveSurfing and a Moebius style pattern matching gun.

1st: pez.mini.Pugilist 2.0.9        3147  1250  250   1452  194   0  0  25 25 0
2nd: wiki.mini.FeederOfRavens 2.0   3069  1250  250   1401  167   0  0  25 25 0


 * FeederOfRavens v1.0:
Pugilist 2.0.9 WaveSurfing and a Fenrir PM-gun.

 * FeederOfRavens v2.0 (ranking 1922.7 after 613 battles):
Pugilist 2.0.9 WaveSurfing and a Moebius 2.0 PM-gun.

 * FeederOfRavens version:sm:
Pugilist 2.0.9 WaveSurfing and a Smoke PM-gun. download it here: http://iiley.w169.west263.cn/opus/wiki.mini.FeederOfRavens_sm.jar

Comparisons are always nice:

-- PEZ

i think this comparison with Pugilist shows how strong GF-guns are, compared with the simpler PM-guns, in the current RoboRumble. The ranking of FeederOfRavens v2.0 is 1922.7, the ranking of Pugilist is 2003.38 (both are mini).
I find the results of FeederOfRavens against the WaveSurfers a bit dissapointing. I tried this combination of Pugilist WaveSurfing and a Moebius PM-gun because the actual score of many bots with a PM-gun is so much higher than the expected score, often something like 16%. But the comparison shows that the results of the GF-gun of Pugilist are always equal to or better than those of the PM-gun. --Loki

Interesting idea! Why don't you try a better PM gun? The nano-sized ones sacrifice a lot of accuracy to be as small as possible. --David Alves

I'll have to disagree about this PM/GF comparisson... No doubts that P's GF gun is a very strong gun (and CC's GF gun is one of the more strongest guns in Rumble - if not THE strongest). All my bots use PM guns, Okami for example, is a broken-WaveSurfer with a PM (althought not a SIMPLE PM) gun (very similar to SS's gun), and is currently a tie with FeederOfRavens.
The problem with your comparisson, is that you are comparing one of the best GF? guns with simple PM... That comparisson would be better if you mount in FeederOfRavens ABC's PM gun, witch in my humble opinion is THE strongest PM gun in rumble. -- Axe

Hi, Loki, i am wondering how about Smoke or Cigaret PM-Gun, I know many Surfers did not very good against them, I don't know is their PM-Gun did good against surfers or the old Cigaret-Movement did good against GF Guns. I will have a little test. Wait... -- iiley

David, Axe, you are both right that the PM-gun i used is too simple for a real comparison. What i didn't mentioned, but though was important is that FeederOfRavens also was a mini. I think a better conclusion is that within the code-limits the GF-gun is so much more powerfull.
I still wonder why many robots with a PM-gun score relatively high against WaveSurfers (or absolutely in some cases like Shadow), and FeederOfRavens just scores as expected. A test with a 'real' PM-gun is worthwhile.

Iiley, i think your PM-guns are strong indeed, but i am not clever enough to understand them... So if you manage to put them into a Pugilist (mini) i am certainly curoius how it performs. --Loki

I just tested the last version of Pugilist,Smoke and Cigaret vs CassiusClay.Here are the data of 100 rounds:

bot bullet hitsbullet damage score
Pugilist 305 3246
Smoke 205 3425
Cigaret 226 3831

-- iiley

Iiley, are these results against a non-shooting CC? --Loki

@Loki: Given these boundaries, i understand u... I ain't certainly the right person to talk about minis... My bots are Godzilla Bots (Giga or TeraBots?) :)...
But also i forgot to mention that my PM guns aren't strict PM, they use MultipleChoice (i think that ABC's guns also, since that feature in my gun was inspired by ABC). This make these guns more to a rude GF gun feeded by a PM...
@Iiley: That experiment with Cigaret sounds interesting, since most of your bots are a nightmare to be beaten (especially to me) -- Axe

Iiley, Axe, are your guns easily pluggable? and are you willing to put it into this or another Pugilist variation? Then we just ignore the code limit and test a GF-gun against a 'real' PM-gun. --Loki

I think the Cigaret gun can fit together with Pugilist movement in a mini. I should be able to shrink P's movement by some 100+ bytes without losing functionality or too much readability if it should prove necessary. However, in a first try we needn't make it a mini. One can just remove the gun from P and the movement from C and dispatch the scanned event like CassiusClay does. Easy and should only take a few minutes of work. Also it would be very interesting to try make C's gun shoot only power 1.9 bullets... -- PEZ

Far from be "easily pluggable"... My code is a place that not even Theseus would dare to enter... But i could make a try (my problem is that i am VERY short of time these days)... -- Axe

Hey, I thought you were Theseus incarnated? =) -- PEZ

Thank your for the right boundaries Axe ;}, I dont know is that means the Cigaret and Smoke PM gun did better against CC, Ok i maybe should have a try to see the truth, I will manage to put Smoke or Cigaret gun into Pugilist to be the next version of FeederOfRavens, I only can do it tomorrow, I must be leaving now, our office's guards will go to take me off if i dont leave after 23:00 ;]. And it maybe a very slow bot then.:{ -- iiley

Yeah. P's slow movement paired with C's slow gun. But it's a cool experiment! -- PEZ

At least the FoR's placing in the mini ranking table provides an argument in the eternal question of MovementOrTargeting. =) -- PEZ

This is my testing result:

1st: wiki.mini.FeederOfRavens sm	3815	1350	270	1943	252	0	0	29	21	0
2nd: pez.mini.Pugilist 2.0.9	        3093	1050	210	1643	190	0	0	25	27	0

1st: wiki.mini.FeederOfRavens sm	3364	1100	220	1775	269	0	0	22	13	0
2nd: abc.tron3.Tron 3.11	        2176	650	130	1283	113	0	0	14	22	0
-- iiley

Nice iiley, this seems to be a serious contender!

20  wiki.mini.FeederOfRavens 2.0   1918.06  details graph  1317  22-10-2004:10:53 
21  wiki.mini.FeederOfRavens sm    1908.44  details graph  43    22-10-2004:11:33 
and a momentum of +233 --Loki

Seems that FeederOfRavens sm can not climb after 1964 score, showing that Pugilist's GF gun is greater than Smoke's PM gun against most robots. -- iiley

It's at 1972 after only 154 battles, so on average it has only met half of the total number of opponents. I believe in this version, give it some time --Loki

Too early to tell yes. But I would be surprised if Smoke can smoke Pugilist's punch anyway. P has a strong gun for a mini. Almost as strong as CassiusClay/Bee. -- PEZ

I just have seen the Pugilist in TargetingChallenge, I don't need to say anything, the result of it showing that it's best mini gun. Smoke or other mini/micro gun cannot get a nearest score. -- iiley

=) I think it's more or less a tie between Raiko and Pugilist in the TC. And Raiko has an edge in the RRGunChallenge. However FoR wasn't a test of Pugilist's or Smoke's gun anyway. It was a test to see if with a PatternMatching gun Pugilist's surfing could bring home some WaveSurfer heads. Which it could using Smoke's gun. Yay!

But lets wait a while with the next test (which is using Cigaret's gun firing power 1.9 I would suggest.). Too many SlowBots updated at the moment. It takes forever to get the results. (I ran a 1000 round TGrapher session minimized. It ran in 5 (five) fps while SilverSurfer, PulsarMax or FoR was being run by the RR@H client! When I killed the client the TGrapher session ran in 780 fps...)

-- PEZ

Oh~Yes. Maybe we could test Cigaret or other better PM guns, but i can't fix Cigaret PM gun with Pugilist movement into a minibot. I will not much slower than Smoke's gun, If it is, it will skip many turns ;]. -- iiley

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Last edited March 27, 2006 3:47 EST by Voidious (diff)