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PEZ, what causes the difference in performance between Pugilist/Aristocles? (good) and Titius (bad) against Wolverine. I have problems with Wodan against Wolverine, appearantly because of the stop&go nature of Woverine's movement. You mention Pugilist/Aristocles? share the same gun. What makes this gun so much better than that of Titius (with its high rating)? Or is it a combination of movement and gun (I noticed the same GF-gun can perform very differently with different types of movement of the bot using that GF-gun). A lot of text: you see i really have a problem with Wolverine... ;) --Loki

Yes, this Wolverine problem has been up before. And solved! Can't remember right now... I'll look for it. If someone else can remember please join. It might have been with Falcon I had this issue... -- PEZ

Found it. It's discussed on the Aristocles page. What do you figure the bearing movement direction of your enemy is when it is stationary? That's the key to GF-gun down stop-n-go bots. -- PEZ

thanks, i will take a look on the Aristocles page. --Loki

Here's the key code in Pugilist:

public class Pugilist extends AdvancedRobot {
...
    static double enemyBearingDirection = 0.75;
...
    public void onScannedRobot(ScannedRobotEvent e) {
...
        if (enemyVelocity != 0) {
            enemyBearingDirection = 0.73 * sign(enemyVelocity * Math.sin(e.getHeadingRadians() - enemyAbsoluteBearing));
        }
        wave.bearingDirection = enemyBearingDirection / (double)Wave.MIDDLE_FACTOR;
...
That is, if the enemy is stationary I assume it will continue to go in whatever direction it was moving before it stopped. Tityus always assumes a clockwise movement in this case. And when Wolvie is stop-n-going counter-clockwise you can imagine what happens... Of course this also means you can fool Pugilist b stop-n-going in an oscillation pattern. -- PEZ

Not really, it means Pugilist will fire more at negative GFs when the enemy in stationary, like it should. -- ABC

Yeah... you seem to understand GF targeting better than I ABC. GFs are a bit magical. -- PEZ

I have a true admiration for GF targeting and it's [Master], it took me quite a long while to fully understand it. It sure is magical. :) -- ABC

Hehe, but Paul isn't the master of GF targeting at the moment I would say. But as the inventor he deserves the brightest spot ever in Robocode land. Then I would place you, ABC, at the next brightest spot for picking up that invention and inventing WaveSurfing on top of them! -- PEZ

Could you guys explain to me why you think GF targeting is so brilliant? (of course I agree with that) I have no insight into GF gunning, because I never wrote a GF gun. Unfortunately my obsessive compulsive nature forces me to travel unpaved paths all the time, constantly reinventing other types of wheels, most of which are quite useless. ;-) Anyway, I'd like to know its inherent qualities so I can compare them to those of my gun-under-development. --Vic

I think that the biggest gain with GF theory is that u pick a 2D problem and tranform it in 1D only. I also have no GF gun, but i have learned to admire the simplicity of that idea (magic) while building my WaveSurfing. GF magic is so brilliant that allow u to have not just a blody strong gun (Jam's GF gun is the strongest gun in rc, i think) but also an excelent movement (WaveSurfing is what 8 from the top-10 bots use for moving). I mean that with GF (and EnemyWaves, of course) by itself you can have both movement & gun very strong. -- Axe

Did u tested 1.9.3.4 against DevilFish?? Seems that there is again something strange against it: scoring 62%... -- Axe

Thanks for keeping watch for me. 1.9.3.4 was only a gun segmentation tweak. I think it might wait a bit too long now before firing power 3 at close ranges...

About Vic's question. I know I said differently, but it's not GF targeting that's so brilliant. It's GFs in themselves. Before I did GF targeting I did something like LaserTargeting (though without knowing about laser targeting and I called it EscapeArea targeting...) But then I had to keep track of left and right all the time. Made things messy. With GFs I just don't care about that. I still trick myself into thinking I have to, like with that "fooling Pugilist" remark up there. -- PEZ

There are no GFs in my gun, I can assure you ;). My MultipleChoice-ing is based on positions/angles, I never translate them into GFs. DT's gun is, imho, the only GF-based gun that really "stands out" in the field. It is very hard to fool using wavesurfing, it seems to have the qualities of a GF and a PM gun at the same time. -- ABC

Well, Pugilist seems to have at least as big problem with the Raiko guns as with DT's. -- PEZ

I am also very impressed with Raiko/MX's gun. It seems to learn faster than the other top guns. --Vic

Maybe it's your gun that has a problem with RaikoMX's movement? Are you measuring the enemy's hit rate or overall performance? I don't really know for sure, but, at least for me, Raiko's gun is much easier to fool than DT's (in the long run)... -- ABC

Yeah, my gun has problems with RMX movement for sure. But it's really that I need the wall segmentation in my movement to trick Raiko guns (and Aristocles gun too for that matter). Adding it gives me strength against DT too. Segmentation is tricky when WaveSurfing since whatever way you cut it you need fast learning in order to compete in a 35 round competition like the RoboRumble.

Well, in my experiments with wall segmented wavesurfing, it didn't help much (if anything) against anyone. I believe I have the learning speed problem solved now, so maybe I'll try it one more time... -- ABC

Please tell me how you have dealt with learning speed this time. I certainly have that problem! And, do you have any thoughts about the accel segmentation and pattern matcher guns I babble about below? "Rocket scientist" referred very much to you, if you wondered. =) -- PEZ

This time I dealt with learning speed problem exactly like I have been dealing with it for some time now :), the multiple segmentation levels method I described elsewhere. Together with bin smoothing, I believe it works quite well. The improvements I did to Shadow 3.03 were all related to the small movement details (wall smoothing/bouncing, distance control, etc.) and gun performance, the wavesurfing classes are exactly the same as in Shadow 3.01 and Tron 3.06. -- ABC

I also have found surprisingly many points in the movement details. As much as 40+ points if I sum them up I think. -- PEZ

That is the history of WaveSurfing, i think, lots of details & bugs... Just released SS 2.22 that corrects a bunch of very serious bugs (measuring gf, for example). Not surprising if i have introduced new bugs... -- Axe

Though in my and ABC's case here it's unrelated to WaveSurfing. It's the same movement details regardless of what flattening/dodging strategy you might have. Like now I am trying (with P 1.7.9.2) controlling my distance to be around 500 instead of the way I have done it the latest year or so (always increasing distance as long as the walls allow it). -- PEZ


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Last edited May 20, 2004 14:34 EST by Kawigi (diff)
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