Hmmm. What has happened to the front page? It looks all empty and boring. I liked when it showed how much content you could expect to find on the wiki. -- PEZ
The first time in months or so I look at the front page... But I liked the old one although it was a bit cluttered. Jokester appears to have done it. -- Jonathan
Yes, I can see how it is much less clutter now. Let's try it this way a while. As you say, we ragulars don't use that page very much anyway. And too newcomers it might feel less daunting now. -- PEZ
Well, as a newcomer, relatively speaking (Less than a year at the wiki). I can say that the old page was NOT a problem, in fact, I liked the clutter-ness of it. However, I have an ability to see order in chaos, so keep that in mind when thinking on my post --UnderDark
Personally, I like it, I think Jokester did a nice job. -- Alcatraz
I changed it around a few weeks ago, with a question as to whether people liked the change or not (no response, I guess not many people check it). I can easily change it back if you prefer. My personal feeling was that there was alot of repeated information and unnessecary info. I was actually under the impression for my first few visits that everything the wiki had was on that page (definitely not true), and in this revision I chose to make it more of a table of contents. Half the links were repeated, broken, or unused (the pages on the bottom half not having been updated for years and several broken links). I also wasnt sure of the point to listing the different techniques on the front page, because with everything there it made the Targeting and Movement pages a bit useless. So I decided on a cut down home page, with just the big concepts, and through those concepts I have and still am organizing those big topic pages into a table of contents for that topic. The goal being that you could go to the homepage with an idea of the question or topic you need, and choose the broad topic. Then that would take you to another list of subtopics, and so forth to all the pertinant information, being able to bring in all the pages on the subject, because before alot of the pages could only be accessed through a link in the discussion part of a Bot page or something like that.
Mind you, this is just one mans opinion. I made sure before I changed it that there was a copy available ( Home ) and I can easily revert the page back. Also, if youd like, I can make more of a middle ground by bringing the subtopics into the main page (although I then dont really get the point of the topic pages). Input is both welcome and desired, for that is the real point of the wiki.
The point with both sub categories on the main page and topic pages would be that different people thinks differently and having it both ways makes both "guesses" right. I'd appreciate a middle ground bewteen the last version and the current one. But that's again just one persons opinion. -- PEZ
Maybe if the topic pages listed under Targeting and Movement were on the main page as well? -- Alcatraz
Hmm, if you would like, I can just return it to its old status. But if a middle ground would be prefered, I think the best way to do this is to determine what people liked and what can be removed.
Basically, there are certain sections of the original home page (you can see it at Home)
- Welcome section
- I found this fine as it was (made the Welcome part a little bigger)
- Initial Directory
- Everything here was repeated in Robot Creation, and i didnt think we needed it twice
- Robot Creation menu
- Probably the part that most people would like to rearrange
- Bots Menu
- I felt that we shouldnt include specific bots without having them all
- The other 2 pages in this menu were very specifically bot related, so I thought it better to include them on the Bot page
- Not all of the leagues on this menu are applicable, so I moved them to the Leagues Menu
- I could return the submenus to the main page (at least the active ones)
- Alot of these links are broken, unused, etc, so I moved them all to the resources page
- If you want some of them back let me know
- Assorted Grapes
- Well these were applicable to different sections, so I turned all applicable into the JustForFun menu, with things like WhiteWhales and playing a sound to their applicable topics (Bots and CodeSnippets)
- Operating Environment
- Didnt seem to be really used at all, So i put it under Resources
- Didnt seem to be really used at all, So i put it under Resources
- Moved this to the Future of Robocode, and that under Robocode
- My theory behind that is that most people first using the wiki wouldn't be much more focused on robot development and those focused on the Development of robocode would get to it very easily, and that when they start using the Changes tab, those with a less pressing interest would come across it that way
- Mentioned 3 times already...
It feels like you have thought it through like noone else has. And everything you say makes sense to me. I cleaned the home page up some more even. And moved stuff around a bit according to my idea of categorization. -- ~~~~
Hi, I don't know where to put it, but I really want to see a fully migrated new wiki as soon as possible. I found out that in past 6 months, there are no migration happen (unless you count User:Nat, User:Zyx, Ocnirp, Newton and few RoboRumble page) I've think the new rule that can make a migration a bit faster. Here is the rule:
- Email to PEZ (or write to him if he is active) to LOCK every but participants pages.
- Put on a notice: "This site is no longer editable, instead if you want to say something to the page, migrate it to the new wiki!"
- Make a UseModWiki template (if there are) or put on every migrated pages a notice: "This page have been migrated, please look at the new wiki"
- Create a clear instruction how to migrate the page beautifully.
I can do all of that myself, but I request for a community permission before doing so... --Nat
Go ahead =) I'd like not to have to change both pages of my version history ;-) -- Skilgannon
Are PEZ active? I saw him a few days ago, not not sure is he check frequently. Should I emailed him firstname.lastname@example.org or email@example.com? Should I put a notice on front page? --Nat
Oh! I found a problem in my rule above. The first rule said that all pages will be read-only but the third rule said that "put on every migrated pages a notice" How can we put on the ontice on read-only page? Anyone have ideas? --Nat
Yes, it has long been high time we "really" migrate. I think the main thing to do is point the robowiki.net domain at the new server, then put this wiki in archived form at a subdomain or some such. PEZ, Fnl, David Alves and I have discussed this quite a bit, but we've just never pulled the trigger on it.
David Alves owns the server we're using at roborumble.org and PEZ controls the domain, but it's also largely me that's failed to make the migration finally happen. I'll try and get things rolling within the next week or so... In any case, yes, you can mail PEZ at either of those addresses if you want. (Sorry I've been so absent on the wiki, guys!)
- I'll be very pleased if you arrange it for me. I'm not sure what I've to write in mail, but I see that you are wiki administrator! Hope we will fully migrated this year. :-) --Nat
I figure the sooner the domain name gets moved over the sooner the new wiki will really get embraced. As much of a good idea the new wiki is, we kinda stick to this one still because its easier to get to (and we are used to it). Just my opinion... also please make sure we know where this one is. :) --Chase
Agreed. This wiki no longer unstable (like last year). Last year, it down frequently, especially about Q4. The one down course lost of all changes! Anyway, if some one just create a script that import ALL of the page into MediaWiki? first and let user re-formatted it would be better. Also, if someone create mediawiki bot that automatically insert a link would be a good ideas, as I', lazy to type just and? :-) --Nat
- Honestly a bot is a bad diea, I think someone suggested that actually. We figured it ebtter to move it voer by hand to reduce the large number of conversations and so we can format more for a modern wiki look. --Chase
Just wanted to let y'all know that I didn't forget about this and I am getting the ball rolling with the migration. Hopefully it will happen soon. Starting to get the itch again, too, but we'll see what comes of that. =) -- Voidious
But I forgot already =P Anyway, you have remind me. Starting another seasons of migration. --Nat
Hey Nat - I like the big/red text on the main page, but I'm not sure we want to say this wiki is "discontinued" just yet. It's still at the primary URL, and I believe it's still where RoboRumble is checking the participants list. When we get the domain pointing at the new wiki, we can truly discontinue this one and make it read-only. Cool? -- Voidious
- Agree. And very first thing to do now is to make Flemming know that community is moved to the new wiki. There are around 3 newcomers arrived at Robocode Forum (at SF), and every Flemming advice on RoboWiki is at http://robowiki.net :-) I've create few templates at new wiki to help the migration. Hope it help.
- Some suggestion: It is a time to point this domain to new wiki. and let this wiki at old.robowiki.net or something. That way we can trigger use of new participants list. We can use HTTP 301 Moved Permanently on testwiki.roborumble.org. For some old links, we can put in MediaWiki?:Noarticletext describe that. --Nat
- Yep, I'm working on getting the domain pointed over - hopefully it will happen soon. -- Voidious
- One question is, once the domain is pointed over, what will be used to access the read-only copy of the old wiki? A subdomain perhaps? -- Rednaxela
- I suggest old.robowiki.net. --Nat
- Yep, I was thinking a subdomain - I like "old" or "classic". =) -- Voidious
- How about "discounted" ? =D --Nat
- I think we discussed this elsewhere, but the URL structure of the old wiki is distinct from the new one, so there's really no need to move anything on this side... --Darkcanuck
- Hmm, that's a good point, but I had been thinking we might forward old-wiki URLs to new-wiki URLs for the corresponding pages on the new wiki. -- Voidious
- I like that idea -- I just hate seeing dead links and don't think all of the old wiki's pages will ever get migrated, just the important ones... --Darkcanuck
- But almost every page is the important one. I suggest to migrate all page except a page like OceansOfSpareTime, RobocodeTooLong, WhatTheHeckAreTheySaying, SignificantOthers. All robot page that are still in rumble should be migrated, as if robot that not in rumble but create by long-robocoder author (like PPP) Some of the entertain pages should be moved too, if you want. But we usually starting new page on the new wiki. --Nat
- Actually, yeah, maybe that's not such a good idea. I do think most content should get migrated eventually, but a) it will be a while, and b) a lot of pages may get reorganized or renamed. Maybe we can make old-wiki URLs forward to the subdomain / read-only copy of the old wiki; and if possible, I think it would be very nice to have some kind of header on the old wiki to a) note that you are viewing the archived old wiki, and b) provide a link to that page title on the new wiki. I also wonder how any of these options would affect the page listings in Google. Thoughts? -- Voidious
- That would be excellent! Redirect to a read-only copy on the new subdomain and add a header with the note and link to the new wiki. That would prevent dead links, encourage migration and should still keep Google happy. --Darkcanuck
- But the old wiki is going to be locked down! We might want another page that pair old wiki pages with new wiki pages and redirect correctly. We don't want to spamming the new wiki with those redirected! ~~~~
- I still prefer to moved since it may keep the folder a bit cleaner... Oh wait, MediaWiki? installation only in /w and UseModWiki only have one file, if you don't count the data files. But, it is on separated server now, I don't know can they migrate eventually. Just off-topics, Voidious, do you still not have any access to mod_rewrite on new server (I mean David Alves one)? --Nat
- I have full access to the new server. -- Voidious
- I actually mean do the new server has mod_rewrite enabled? I hate the /w/index.php?title=, I want to see /wiki/ --Nat