Editing RobocodeLittleLeague/Feedback

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Add any feedback or suggestions you'd like to give concerning the [[RobocodeLittleLeague]] below:
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I'd liked to see HawkOnFire in the mini-melee competition. it might have had a chance there too. apart from that and anyway, good job ;) -- [[rozu]]

How about listing the winners on the front page like tobe did? --[[David Alves]]

I suppose I could do that, I also have them posted if you click on the name of the tournament.  Is it preferable to post the latest winners on the homepage, too?

On the subject of promotions, that's still on my mind.  Both as an idea with some merit and I'm also thinking about a good way to implement it.  It wouldn't have been as possible to do it today, as I ended up re-running the whole tournament in parallel (on several different computers). In the future, however, this need not be the case, all I need to do is define a logical hierarchy of divisions.  It's obvious this exists for the nano-micro-mini line, and it also exists from haiku to sonnet.  It doesn't exist for FemtoBots, really, but that's sort of a tournament of its own. -- [[Kawigi]]

It's nice to see "my name in lights" as Paul Evans once put it. I'd like to see with winners posted on the front page. :-D Also, You might think about iterating through the same set of results to stabilize the rankings if you're interesting in getting the most accurate reading possible. Roborumble@home does this. --[[David Alves]]

That would obviously stabilize quite a bit.  Although I'm satisfied at the moment, as it appears that getting that tough match first doesn't seem to keep a bot down permanently, which is something I worried about.  How do you like the main homepage now, btw? -- [[Kawigi]]

Much better. I didn't mean *just* my name though, I think that everyone who wins should get their name on the front page. Even if I don't win any of the competitions next week, the winners should still get their names up there. It gives us something to shoot for. No pun intended ;-) --[[David Alves]]

lol, I'm just fooling around.  Anyways, another excuse to put my name on the front page a bunch of times... -- [[Kawigi]]

OK, now how is it (more seriously this time).  For posterity that won't get what just happened, I put in bold big red letters that David won the Femto 1-on-1 division on the front page earlier. -- [[Kawigi]]

Whee.. go spinny. I'm pleasantly surprised by his 1v1 results, but he handily won the division he was geared for. Any new femto melee bots coming around? -- [[Kuuran]]

Sure, I'll write one for next week. :-) --[[David Alves]]

[[Poets]] might be able to perform in melee. I can't try it easily, because some of you guys insist on releasing BrokenBots. -- [[PEZ]]

The rules doesn't mention battle field size settings and such. -- [[PEZ]]

It would be nice if you could post app that you use to run the tournaments to help people test their bots. --[[David Alves]]

Spiin can does almost the same thing to Spinny,but his codesize is 29,hope it can did as good as Spinny~;].  -- [[iiley]]

Maybe [[tobe]] will enter his old FemtoWalls (a.k.a. HaikuWalls).  HaikuCircleBot is meant to also be a melee femto type, but maybe it's not femto enough (it was melee enough to win the Haiku division, though).

To [[PEZ]] - there aren't any femto melee bots to speak of that are 'broken'.  FunkyFemto isn't going to be your threat in that category.  And I guess I forgot about field sizes and stuff when I wrote the rules page.  I'll make a note.  Melee is run on 1000x1000, by the way.

David - I'll post the app when I finish locking down a few more things with it, but before I start automating uploading of results.

Thanks, guys, for your thoughts, hopefully we'll get some general improvement here.  Especially once we get a few finished sonnets and the divisions will be complete. -- [[Kawigi]]

I think you should add to the rules of the little league that contestants should not be BrokenBots. Poet is listed twice on the Femto Competitors list btw. -- [[PEZ]]

Most of the things that break bots can be re-written with non-broken but longer code, right?  So could the one used in the league be the broken one, but a non-broken, longer version be released for testing? -- [[Tango]]

That would be a bit complicated I think. It would be reasonable enough if the rules said the bots must run in environments where Robocode itself runs. -- [[PEZ]]

Do the semicolons inside a for(;;) statement count for Sonet bots? -- [[Albert]]

We'll see how Spiin does :) Spinny was at codesize 27, and can go back there, but I upped the codesize to 34 because I felt it significantly improved his score. Maybe on 1000x1000 (I was using 800x600) that won't matter, and I can pop spinny back to 27. We'll see after next season ;) -- [[Kuuran]]

Ah, I'll fix the double listing when I update those pages next (probably when I add your new entries and update liuyang's, since his micro turned out to be a mini).  For versions, the battles will basically always be run on 1.4 on either Windows or Linux (Linux this week) or a combination of the two.  As for myself, I always leave my BrokenBots open source for [[PEZ]] to mangle at will.  The only big issue is with Femtos, since they may be bigger if fixed for older versions of Java (even if its only slightly).  Semicolons do count in for loops.  If you don't use all of them anyways, they're not worth using probably.  And at any rate, they probably still aren't, if you can find a way to integrate them into other phrases. -- [[Kawigi]]

Thanks. je, je ... I just uploaded MicroAspid transformed into a Sonet (named SonetMicroAspid). -- [[Albert]]

For the record. I don't think the platform used for running the league has anything whatsoever to do with if BrokenBots should be allowed or not. At the same time I am happy that you have decided to open source your BrokenBots Kawigi. Even if I most often find it a bit too much work to unpack and fix them; when I do find I want to, I can. I'm a quite bit surprised I suddenly found myself manufactoring [[FemtoBot]]s! -- [[PEZ]]

There's a bit of fun and challenge to FemtoBots that make them unique I think, particularly in a competitive sense.  I don't think that competitive Femto development, both in terms of effectiveness and size, has been seriously pursued, or pursued at all in the recent past.  Anyways, some people (like [[Iiley]]) seem to find it fun :-). -- [[Kawigi]]

Haha~~You are right Kawigi,i can not make me stop,and ... i am afraid i will make much more haiku and femto bots(another manufactoring ~;]).However i will test my bots,I only release the bots which are competetalbe  -- [[iiley]]

I like a competition as much as anybody else. =) What are the dimensions of the field in the different divisions now? -- [[PEZ]]

''Update'': I added to the rules page that one-on-one battles are run on 800x600 and melee is on 1000x1000.  I also started an automated system for updating the competitor lists, so at this point, if there are any mistakes, let me know. -- [[Kawigi]]

''Update again'': Re-updated the list, forgot to put some of PEZ's bots in the divisions he wanted them in, and I accidentally put all the HaikuBots into the Sonnet division.  Also, the system I use to count lines for line-based competition has been updated to take comments into account.  Although I haven't gotten to actually test it yet. -- [[Kawigi]]

Second season is done.  Most of the suggestions on how the tournament is run have not yet been implemented.  Coming hopefully next week. -- [[Kawigi]]

This is a great day to wake up! For the first time in my Robocode life I have actually won a tournament with more than two contestants. And I won two!  I'm a bit surprised though, I thought my biggest chances was in [[Melee]]. But a Haiku and Femto [[OneOnOne|1v1]] title is something I feel more than just a bit proud of. Haiku wall avoidance payed off. =) And I didn't emberass myself in melee either. Where did [[Escape]] come from? I forgot to test against it. But I guess to deal with it I would have to stop shooting head-on, which is something I just don't know how to do in Haiku / Femto form. -- [[PEZ]]

Congrats!  I think we also need to make a perceptual-nano-haiku-droid-extends-Robot division.  (I was reminded by one of the other guys in charge of Yajags about a certain old Repository thread).  What does David think?  He already has an entrant:
<pre>
public class PerceptualNanoDroidRobotDuelist extends Robot implements Droid{

public void run() {
		
		while (true) {
			//Move ahead until we crash into something
			ahead(Double.POSITIVE_INFINITY);
			
			//Turn to a new random angle
			turnRightRadians(Math.random() * 2 * Math.PI - Math.PI); 
		}
	}
	
	public void onHitRobot(HitRobotEvent e){
		turnGunRight(e.getBearing());
		while(true){
			fire(3);	
		}	
	}
}
</pre> -- [[Kawigi]]

I'm game. Please add <nowiki>DroidPoet</nowiki> to the roster. You'll find source and a download link in the [[Poets]] page. Now that there are two contestants we might have a division for it? =) -- [[PEZ]]

<strike>Sounds like fun! Please add a BlindDroid from the BlindFighters team too! :-)  </strike><br>
Ow, right, I forgot... BlindDroid doesn't extend Robot... nevermind ;-) --[[Dummy]]

Well, hurry up make one that does! It would make 50% more contestants if you did. =) -- [[PEZ]]

Yeah, then we could have a melee division!  Make sure it's a perceptual haiku-nano-bot, too. :-p -- [[Kawigi]]

http://robocoderepository.com/BotDetail.jsp?id=1749<br>
Does it really have to be a Haiku bot? I've rewritten BlindDroid now, and it works... it's perceptual, nano, Robot and Droid... just not Haiku... :-/ -- [[Dummy]]

By the way... I don't think PerceptualNanoDroidRobotDuelist will work... turnRight<b>Radians</b>(...) is for AdvancedRobot and TeamRobot only... -- [[Dummy]]

Ah, 'tis so.  He original messed up and made it extend AdvancedRobot, so he probably missed that.  Maybe it should extend _AdvancedRadiansRobot or whatever that one is. -- [[Kawigi]]

I might be wrong, but I think I have been able to use some Radians() methods with Robot... -- [[PEZ]]

You shouldn't have been able to... are you sure you didn't use math.toRadians()? -- [[Tango]]

I'm pretty sure I didn't mix up Math and Robot. =) Though, as I said, I could have the whole thing wrong. But I remember thinking "strange that I could use ''that'' ...Ragians() method bot not ''that'' one. -- [[PEZ]]

I'll have to run a little test... -- [[Tango]]

Ok, i've think i may have solved it.  bots that extend robot can't use the Radians methods of the AdvancedRobot class, such a getHeadingRadians() etc., but they *can* use the radians methods in the scannedRobotEvent object, such as e.getHeadingRadians(). -- [[Tango]]

Ah, good point. -- [[Kawigi]]

Are you trying to tell me I might of got something right for once? -- [[Tango]]

lol, haven't you gotten something else right at some point in time?   -- [[Kawigi]]

The results of the third season are up now, Congrats to [[Iiley]] for winning practically every division, and to [[PEZ]] for winning the mini 1-on-1 division ;-) -- [[Kawigi]]

RISC approach works sometimes. =) On the home page you have the wrong date listed for the latest tournament. -- [[PEZ]]

RISC approach?  Anyways, the date and link are fixed. -- [[Kawigi]]

Thank you Kawigi,haha~~~I won 5 divisions.nice~ ~;]  -- [[iiley]]

Reduced Instruction Set Computer. VertiLeach is a DonQuijote bot you know. =) -- [[PEZ]]

I thought it was Quixote (?). -- [[Kawigi]]

I guess you can spell it several ways. Quijote is how I have most often seen it written. -- [[PEZ]]

Ha!  Well, Google most often sees it "Quixote".  Of course it's close, it said it had an estimated 155k results for "Don Quijote" and an estimated 205k results for "Don Quixote".  And the Quixote ones seem to be more about the book or play.  Anyways.  Nice friendly Google contest. -- [[Kawigi]]

In modern spanish is is "Don Quijote". "Quixote" is it's form in SXVI spanish, not used anymore. -- [[Albert]]

Does that mean that "x" once had the similar phonetics as "j" has today? I'm not Spanish speaking, but I seem to understand that "x" today is rather silent? -- [[PEZ]]

Nowdays, spanish "x" is pronounced very similar to the english one. I'm not good at phonetics, but in old spanish, the "x" in Quixote was pronounced as "tx" (pronounce it similar to "ch"eese) that evolved later to "j" (pronounce it more or less like in jam). -- [[Albert]]
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Didn't VertiLeach get to fight any in this 1v1 season 5? It got a score, but I can't see the battle stats. -- [[PEZ]]

No, it didn't.  You'll notice it fought both Aspid and DuelistMiniMelee in season 6.  If there are an odd number of competitors, one person misses every odd season and then comes back and fights two in the next one. -- [[Kawigi]]

Aha, that makes sense. Thought you might have a bug in your automation system. Silly me. =) -- [[PEZ]]
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Why didn't VertiLeach get included in the mini 1-v-1 division this time? -- [[PEZ]]

Ah, crap, it looks like when I updated to VertiLeach 0.3, it didn't end up having a .jar extention, so it got skipped. -- [[Kawigi]]

I wasn't aware you updated the bots without a request. 0.3 was rather experimental. I was pretty satisfied with the performance of 0.2.2 there. =) Strange this with the .jar extension. I updated the bot just as I always do, and RoboRumble@Home had no probs with it. Well, maybe next week VertiLeach 0.3.1 will be able to try its luck? -- [[PEZ]]

I think it was probably just me not using "Save As..." properly.  We'll get this fixed with the next version next week ;-) -- [[Kawigi]]

We'll see what version that will be. It's mostly bad luck, but I don't like the tie between [[Fhqwhgads]] and VertiLeach after 3 battles. http://rumble.robowiki.dyndns.org/servlet/RatingDetails?game=minirumble&name=pez.mini.VertiLeach%200.3.1 =) -- [[PEZ]]
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It would be nice if you could include a download link for each bot in the Competitors list. Right now I am trying to figure out how to find TimVA 0.46. Seems impossible. The repository search is broken... -- [[PEZ]]

I tend to look through the categories on the repository to find a robot, but not everyone categorizes their bots :-\  (Moreover, not all the bots in the RLL are on the Repository in the first place, some were just emailed to me, or in some cases a different version was simply emailed to me that is slightly different).  I'll look into the best way to do that, though... -- [[Kawigi]]
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Hey! You let old Verti 0.3.1 fight this season. Next time please make it 0.3.3. It isn't as strong in that competition form as 0.2.2 was maybe, but it should be an improvement on 0.3.1. -- [[PEZ]]
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Nice St. Valentine's colors. It looks like GirlPower stroke again :-) [[Albert]]

Really nice colors... BTW I just want to ask if some more statistics could be displayed somewhere. something like how often a certain bot won a division (or which bot won most of them). This would give a good impression which bot is/has been the dominant one in a certain category. -- [[rozu]]

That might be good.  What I do have is raw files of the scores of each bot in each tournament, so anything that can be calculated from those is pretty feasible.  Other kinds of stats like how many times two bots have battled and stuff is a little harder because I'd have to reprocess all the html results files. -- [[Kawigi]]

Yeah, statistics. More statistics! -- [[PEZ]]

Something like total score or average score would be a good thing I think. -- [[rozu]]

Some stats on the bot authors would be nice too. -- [[PEZ]]

What about this weekend's micro 1v1 results? [[Muffin]] is hailed the winner, yet both [[Aristocles]] and [[Spark]] are ranked higher in the details. -- [[PEZ]]

I see what it is I think. [[Aristocles]] suffers from the same problem in the RLL as it does in RR@H. It can totally shut out some enemies. In this case [[Shiz]] which I think [[Aristocles]] shuts out over 1000 round battles too. Division by ZERO. -- [[PEZ]]

Yep, that's what it was.  Since it only affected a few bots, I decided not to re-run the whole division, but Aristocles and Spark still got the promotion (and Aristocles earned it :-p).  The other reason being that since nano 1-on-1 stalled in season 8 and I had to start it over, the longest thread of the tournament was already taking way too long.  The same problem actually hit the femto division this time around, someone submitted a "sitting duck" femto bot.  You only need 5 bytes to make an empty class... This was a fine idea in melee, since SittingDuck still survives a few rounds, and when your score is only divided by 5 instead of 30 to 40 like the top femtos, your final score is alright.  But in 1-on-1 it was horrid because it got shut-out in every battle, which spread (the way Aristocles and Shiz's scores spread in the next round, luckily the bad battle didn't happen until round 7) to the entire division, until everyone's score was NaN.

Luckily, Mike Zhang helped me think up an idea to fix it to work better in the future, which you could consider doing in the RR@H - I'll just modify the program to bound the scores at 1. -- [[Kawigi]]

Ah, now it's fixed. =) Wall paper!! Micro #1, Mini #1, #2 and #3, Femto #1 and even a Melee title (Haiku)! I like especially winning femto, it's such a great concept to balance codesize for performance like that. -- [[PEZ]]

The results in femto melee for april 17 looks a bit strange... -- [[PEZ]]

They look pretty much like normal to me, except that WallsPoetHaiku is a few places lower than normal. -- [[Kawigi]]

Maybe I'm reading the table the wrong way. But it looks like FemtoGod has much fewer battles faught than the rest.

Can you update [[Pugilist]] to 1.6.4.4 next time around?

No Haiku / Femto titles at all for me this weekend (20040501). I've grown addicted to those. =) It's comfort for a tiger's heart (maybe that's a swenglish expression...) that [[Aristocles]] defends my colors like it does though.

-- [[PEZ]]

Cool! I've got three titles this weekend (http://robocode.yajags.com/20040522/); Micro 1v1 and overall and mini 1v1. Please use the currently uploaded Pugilist next weekend [[Kawigi]]. That's version 1.9.9.4.1. Version 2.0 is put on hold since I my wall smoothing "improvement" was biting me... -- [[PEZ]]

Hay! Just checked the RLL results from the latest run. http://robocode.yajags.com/20040529/ Five (5!) titles for me. Micro and mini 1v1 and overall and femto 1v1. It also happens that I am holding the current high scores in all those divisions. http://robocode.yajags.com/records.php. Need I say I am smiling a really stupid smile here in sunny Stockholm? -- [[PEZ]]

I hope you took the time to read my comments on the tournament, particularly about Pugilist... -- [[Kawigi]]

=) No, I missed that. What I wouldn't do to avoid going 2.0. =) Now, it was a long while since I updated P... I think I know how to save some 15 bytes now actually. Funny lessons megaboting can bring. -- [[PEZ]]

"A less than stellar week." That's the understatement of the year:
<pre>
SEASON 1
1	wiki.mini.Sedan 1.0     	4820	1550	310	2489	470	0	0	31	9	0
2	pez.mini.Pugilist 1.9.9.4.1	992	450	90	389	62	0	0	9	31	0
</pre>
That can't be anything short of a bug. I doubt it helps, but can you please replace the [[Pugilist]] version you have there with version 2.0.4? (The current one on the repository.) T.I.A.!

-- [[PEZ]]

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